Channel 9’s Sunday program featured a forum on Muslim responses to the Hilaly affair.
Ellen Fanning brought together Muslims and non-Muslims to address the unfortunately worded topic of “Good Muslim/bad Aussie?”. The video is available on the website. The forum continues next week.
The forum proved what a disorganised rabble Lebanese Muslim leadership is. People were shouting over each other, at each other and at others.
Even ABC Religion Report presenter Stephen Crittenden struggled to get a word in above all the shouting. Crittenden is hardly an enemy of Muslims, and ABC’s religion programs aren’t exactly Islamophobic.
The shouting panellists would have been well-advised to listen to Crittenden’s simple message – that Muslim Aussies need to reassure non-Muslim Aussies that Islam isn’t a threat to Australia. The hecklers probably managed to achieve the opposite.
When Muslim Reference Group member Iktimal Hage-Ali expressed her disgust at Sheik Hilaly’s speech, someone up the back screamed out: “Excuse me, do you speak Arabic? How good is your Arabic?”
The heckler turned out to be a seasoned Sun-Herald scribe. You’d expect a journalist to know better than embarrass herself and her newspaper on national television.
In the wider scheme of things, her point really was beside the point. There’s no argument about the translation of Hilaly’s speech. And why can’t he speak in English when he claims to lead a faith-community 70% of whom are native English-speakers?
To put it another way, if Perth’s Catholic Archbishop can talk about the evils of mini-skirts in English, why can’t the nation’s most senior Imam?
The panel showed deep rifts between Sheik Hilaly’s followers and members of the pro-Syrian Lebanese al-Ahbash cult. One cult spokesman advised how he’d obtained a ruling from the cult’s Yemeni branch stating Hilaly meant to offend women in his speech. Apparently mind-reading is common in Yemen.
The forum expose that the debate over Hilaly’s position as “Mufti” is in reality a Lebanese turf war of little relevance to most Muslims. There is no empirical evidence Hilaly is recognised by the majority of Australia’s Muslims as mufti. And after watching his supporters (and his Lebanese opponents) make fools of themselves on national TV, most Muslims will wish mufti-day came to an end ASAP!
© Irfan Yusuf 2006
How can you suggest it is a turf war of little relevance to Muslims? It must be of relevance to all Muslims; I cannot imagine how it could be otherwise.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is not Hilaly, or conservative first & second generation Muslims, but the fact that our government is involved in the affairs of a religion. The problem is the existence of a Muslim Reference Group in the first instance.
Governments, by their very nature, promote schism is any society - Government and the Opposition/s. When governments seek to endorse, or be endorsed by, any religious group, a natural schism will appear as that religious group fragments into various factions. Competing for government favour and largesse. This is what is occurring in this 'forum', which is not much more than the Murdoch press pouring fuel onto the fire.
You personally are a politician, seeking to represent some or other political constituency, and are therefore not a fit and proper person to be making these comments. This is quite evident in your blatant advocacy of the Turkish Muslim faction over the Lebanese faction. Not that I have any quarrel with Turkish Muslims, but you quite clearly disqualify yourself in this regard. I on the other hand have a legitimate concern in that I want my country to be an inclusive society tolerant of differences – including differences of opinion. Despite being a Muslim, you place yourself at odds with that goal; you want Muslims to change to an as yet undefined identity, seemingly an identity that does not embarrass you as much. Are you even aware that you come across as being embarrassed?
I have no relationship or connection to the Lebanese Muslim faction, ot any Muslim faction, but from the beginning of the current brouhaha, I took the trouble to examine Hilaly, watched his previous videos; and concluded that whatever he is reported to0 have said, it was not representative of the man or his views. Clearly some unfortunate choice of words had been manipulated (you can manipulate words even if they are quoted verbatim by quoting them in a context that is at odds with the beliefs and practice of the speaker – but you knew that, didn’t you?).
After watching his interview with Ray Martin on 60 minutes, this impression was confirmed. This man is an anti-rape advocate and activist. I am ashamed to say that he does, and has done, more for rape victims in a month than I have done during my entire life. How about you? Do you still feel qualified to wipe the mud from his shoes? He fact is that Hilaly has most probably done more for women, and specifically rape victims, than the vast majority of his critics. Ain’t that something to contemplate? You know his record better than me, but from what I can glean, he founded the Islamic Women’ Society; intervenes in situations of domestic violence; provides support and sustenance to battered women, provides vital cover and rehabilitation of rapes victims into society – and that is just for starters and a matter of routine.
Several times on Sixty Minutes he was pointedly challenged about whether a woman was at any time responsible for being raped and he answered with an unequivocal 'No - Never'. I have no hesitation in opining that if I were asked who was more likely to rape a woman, Hilaly or you? The more likely suspect would be you. If only because Hilaly is scrutinized, and his record revealed, you are not. You are therefore an unknown quantity and Hilaly is not. The man is a cleanskin by any reasonable standard.
There is something obscene about a person who would throw his own to the wolves, on the grounds that he is 'unrepresentative', as if it is a popularity contest. Whether you like it or not, he is representative of you; he could be an older relative, do you deny that? It is despicable of you to abandon him for fear or favour simply because you disagree with his views, or fear the repercussions of his leadership. Have you absolutely no spine?
A Muslim man, totally unrelated to the Middle East, or East Asia, or Turkey has commented that solidarity with Hilaly is incumbent upon him, as a Muslim, regardless of the right or wrong of the matter. That is an issue for another time. Your fair-weather commentary is despicable, and you should reflect a little before you make all these pronouncements all over the place.
My initial reaction was that the Muslim community should have told the Australian public to go and fly a kite - a far better strategy that allow themselves to be dissected and rendered apart so publicly.
The reality is that individuals such as yourself are evident in all societies, not only amongst Muslims, and are as repellent everywhere. I refer obviously, to your spineless mimickery of hypocritical criticism of a man that is so evidently of superior spiritual and moral character.
Why weren't you there? They wouldn't give you weekend release from the lunatic asylum? Couldn't fit your carcass into the studio?
ReplyDeleteDid they prefer to use genuine muslims rather than a pretend muslim? Perhaps you have had your 15 seconds of fame? I think you have had only 14 seconds. You still have one second in which to make yourself a martyr. Drive your little red car through Lakemba Mosque and then fart. For the first time in your life do something productive that is good for Australia.
The whole lot of them should be immediately deported, before Australia becomes a multi-culti shithole.
ReplyDeleteKeysar Trad just cannot open his mouth without lying. As for his daughter: Her brain is a piece of meat and the cats have been eating it already. The world would be a better place if she she wore a burka and a dynamite belt.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you should know better then to embarass yourself! who are u anyway? never heard of you before! Obviuosly no one cares thats why your not known! Atleast that so called "heckler" stood up for islam! unlike yourself who is putting us down! As for that comment made by that annonymous fool about Kaysar Trads daughter, maybe you should wear a dynamite belt and blow up the cult you belong you, you racist piece of trash! Atleast she had courage to stand up to that plastic surgery addict red neck named Bronwyn Bishop! Who does she think she is- scummy people! And that other fool who thinks we should be deported, i think your forgetting your ancestors came here with shackles around their ankles! Seriously, people like you make me sick and should be ashamed to even call yourselves AUSSIES! Your a bunch of animals with no respect!
ReplyDeleteI found Bronwyn Bishop to be the most interesting figure at the "forum". There she was condemning Muslim women for “enslaving” themselves because some choose to wear the veil.
ReplyDeleteYet I was witness to this Bronwyn creature absolutely caked in thick coloured powder and hideous makeup. Her face covering was worse than that of Bobo the clown and yet she has the audacity to criticize the face coverings of others. She’s a total hypocrite.
As the Indonesians say:
ReplyDeleteAnjing menggonggong, kafilah tetap berlalu.
The dogs bark, the procession moves on.
"me" does not understand that there have been many generations of free white people who have arrived in this white country.
ReplyDeleteWe do not need any multi-culti filth, with perverse religious beliefs, here causing trouble.
Muslims Out!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"there have been many generations of free white people who have arrived in this white country."
One assumes then that the same goes for the Aborginals.
And the Philipinos.
And the Chinese.
And the Jews.
And the Pacific Islanders.
And the Indonesians.
And the Lao.
And the Italians.
And the Vietnamese.
And the Greeks.
And the Africans.
And the Indians/Pakistanis.
And the Japanese.
And the Koreans.
And the Spanish.
Small mercies, however - the white Muslims can stay.
why dont you get out "ANONYMOUS"? Australia doesnt need racist people like yourself and other rednecks!
ReplyDeletethis is the Aboriginals land, so if "muslims out" then everyone should leave!
i think you need to be educated more and stop being so pathetic! its a free country and anyone is welcome here, even animals like yourself andn others like you!
Anonymous;i really feel for you.How dare you post a comment like you have.You really are uneducated on life and your judgement will be with god not here.Also whats someone wears or says is their business not yours.Whichever coward suggested She blow herself up needs to realise the only person blowing themselves up will be you.Who on earth do you think you are?Please explain...The purpose here has been taken out of text.You are not better than anyone nor are you given a right to make suggestions on peoples beliefs,opinions or dress codes.What an individual belives or decides to wear is their buisness.The hijab is a blessing and any female who is wearing one should be respected.
ReplyDeleteyou need education and a relaity check...
I'd just like to remind everyone that I am very liberal with moderating comments. I am happy to post abusive and racist comments so that the racism and abuse can be exposed.
ReplyDeleteMy personal opinion is we shouldn't be wasting our time on the trolls. However, those who are disturbed by troll comments and wish to respond are free to do so.
Let's compare the jewish contribution to Australian society with say the muslim contribution.
ReplyDeleteAnd that's why the muslims get kicked out first, then the abos, then the jews, then every other non-white race.
eat my italian salami dick you racist prick
ReplyDeleteWho would take all the muslims, abos, and jews, and other mud people?
ReplyDeleteWhich country would want these vile trouble making misfits and criminals?
If New Zealand won't take them, then we should put them on leaky boats, and set them adrift towards South Africa.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"And that's why the muslims get kicked out first, then the abos, then the jews, then every other non-white race."
Hilarious! Wannabe Hitler-boy would set up a QUEUE, of all things!
BTW, do European Jews count as "white" in your Scaled Hierarchy of Immigrant Territoriality (or your S.H.I.T. for short)? And what about Spaniards who don't go out in the sun much? White or non-white?
the aborigines own this land ANNONYMOUS u fool!
ReplyDeleteYou people have so much hatred towards muslims etc, maybe you should start your own KKK. what is this world coming too. it would be a much better place if racist and ignorant trash like yourself learn to deal with other races and religion!
so pathetic!
qme must be an abo, lacking any understanding, logic, common sense or intelligence.
ReplyDeleteme has racially vilified the white people of Australia with his convicts and chains comments. me should apologise for his racial vilification.
me will find that it is actually not all about me, me, me.
Anon @ 330, I have your IP address. I also know which suburb you live in. One more remark like that and I will publish it.
ReplyDeleteThis bizarre US superiority complex is absurd. The US is infested with niggers and jews, not to mention home grown muslims. Imagine them passing judgement on white Australia when they have all the problems with crime and terrorism from their own racial mess!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDelete"blah blah hitler is great blah blah"
Why don't you go back to your own country, squatter-boy.
I missed the first Sunday debate (the video files don't work on Macs) but I had heard it was somewhat of a bun fight, but in the second one the youth worker said some of his clients can't read and write.
ReplyDeleteHow can this be so in 2006? But isn't this priority number 1?
And as to the "mufti's" offer to re-apply for his job, what has become of that? Is there a job description? Is the position being advertised?
Sadly too many of the comments so far show how big is the problem of understanding outside the Muslim community too. Subtlety in debate is always more entertaining.
annon @3.30..... im not an aborine you fool! and im a GIRL not a GUY!
ReplyDeleteyou are so pathetic why would i apologise! i stated the truth when i wrote that the land belongs to the aborigines AND anyone who claims to be AUSSIE isnt because somewhere along the line one family member was from a foreign country! therefore my point is, if one culture goes then ALL should go!
seriously,some comments that have been made are quiet disturbing! dont you racist people have parents who brought you up with morals? obviuosly from the comments made! get over this whole racist bullshit and deal with it coz quiet frankly the muslims, jews, foreigners etc in this country are not going ANYWHERE!!!!!
and annon @12.40. your a PIG! australia obviously wanted us, actually needed us thats why were here.... im sure when you eat a kebab you forget thats its not a meat pie, or when you eat PIZZA you forget that its italian food!
Scummy people!
Islam is a wicked evil faith, with instructions in the Koran on how to take over a country with rape and murder.
ReplyDeleteThat is why it will be resisted, and we will get muslims out before they rape or kill us.
annon@6.56pm
ReplyDeletehave you read the KORAN????? maybe you should before you make a judgment like that! Our religion is the most humble of them all! and rape? i can guarantee you that 90% of rapists in jail are not muslim or Foreigners! so maybe you need to get your facts straight before you pass judgement about a religion you obviously know NOTHING about!
its funny how as soon as someone who is not an "AUSSIE" does something wrong its plastered all over the news! but with a PRIEST rapes or molests little KIDS who havent even reached puberty its undercover!
For all you so called AUSSIES out there, please explain to me what you classify as an "aussie"... what do we need to do to be accepted? hold a VB in our hand and munch on a FOUR N TWENTY or wear rubber thongs from KMART and King G shorts from lowes? or maybe even stand outside of centre link and wait for the fortnightly dole payment???? Please! those so called Aussies are nothing but a bunch of racist animals.. you belong with the KKK! australia is an accepting country and anyone who believes otherwise is UNAUSTRALIAN!
If you love Jesus kick a muslim in the nuts
ReplyDeleteYes, I have read the Koran, which not only advocated rape and murder of Australians, but also advocates their slavery.
ReplyDeleteSlavery may not be as sexy as rape and murder, unless you are into that sort of thing, but that is what the Koran advocates, no, demands from Moslems in their treatment of white Australians.
That is why Moslems must leave our country. Our children should not be slaves to vile creatures such as you.
so anon @ 719, let me get this right. the koran was written at least 1,400 yars ago. australia as a nation was founded in 1901. the koran actually mentions australia. wow.
ReplyDeletemy guess is that you probably have read the koran, but that you probably did so after smoking and injecting substances ...
Go on, deny that the Koran does not advocate murder, rape, and slavery.
ReplyDeleteThen we will know you are a liar.
Islam is wicked, evil faith, and has no place in Australia.
yes, anon @ 615, you are indeed a goose. i suspect you probably are part of the corrupt money-hungry Hillsong crowd that your bum-chum alex hawke belongs to. or maybe you have chains tied to your thighs like hawke's factional buddies.
ReplyDeleteislam may not be the most non-pacifist faith on the planet. but i want you to name me a single muslim ruler who killed 6 million jews. just one.
if you can't do that, i suggest you take your lithium pills and shove a woopy cushion up your backside/mouth.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"anon @ 615...i want you to name me a single muslim ruler who killed 6 million jews."
Umm - anon @ 615's objection to the murder of 6 million Jews is that it was ONLY 6 million. The guy is Pure Nazi.
Have you been drinking too much again Irfan?
ReplyDeleteMuslims are too incompetent, lazy, cowardly and disorganised to kill 6 million jews. Although of course the Sheik of Jerusalem did try and poison the jews during World War 2 but it was a typical muslim stuff up. He was apparently a regular tourist at Auschwitz. So apparently the Nazi's were keen on muslims entering Germany.
ReplyDeleteLetting a single muslim into this country would make Australia like Nazi Germany. Irfan can stay the rest of you have to go. Irfan stays because we need him to dispose of toxic waste by eating it and absorbing it into his fat deposits.
Thanks, JohnD for your thoughtful and well-expressed comments. Thanks for taking the time to share your views with us at length.
ReplyDeleteAnon @ 1032, I enjoy Rooh-i-Afzah. You should try it. Available at virtually all Indian spice shops.
Anon @ 507, Peter Debnam has enough troubles without having Young Lib exec members like you leaving racist messages on this blog!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"Although of course the Sheik of Jerusalem did try and poison the jews during World War 2 but it was a typical muslim stuff up. He was apparently a regular tourist at Auschwitz."
BAAAAHAHAHAHA. That myth is busted in this book, you ignoramous.
But if you want ACTUAL DOCUMENTS of Nazi collaboration, have a read of this book.
more than 100,000 muslims joined the Waffen SS. How many Australians? None.
ReplyDeleteSir Robert Menzies would be turning in his grave as Irfan says. Turning because his cherished White Australia Policy - the foundation fo Australian Federation - has been abandoned.
Muslims must be dragged out of their homes and their kebab shops and mosques and hotted up cars and be given some re-education in Australian values by being sent with the sheep as live-muslim exports to the middle east.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"more than 100,000 muslims joined the Waffen SS."
Sources, hack?
And how many WHITES joined the Waffen SS? Baaaaaaahahahahahaha!
Oh, and you've never heard of the Palestine Regiment - an indigenous Jewish and Muslim unit which fought side-by-side against Hitler's Afrika Korps in Libya - have you? Check out the cemeteries at El-Alamein, fool. And I assume you know nothing of the Muslims who died in Russia, in France and in Italy fighting against the WHITE Nazis.
On Menzies:
During the 1938 trip he paid an official visit to Nazi Germany, where he admired the régime's efficiency and wondered at a philosophy that 'has produced a real and disinterested enthusiasm which regards the abandonment of individual liberty with something of the same kind of ecstasy as that with which the medieval monk donned his penitential hair shirt'. But he noted that Adolf Hitler was only spoken of 'with the respect which one attaches to a legal fiction' and he told Hjalmar Schacht that 'the suppression of criticism would ultimately destroy Germany'.
Source
there you go again! all you anti MUSLIMS bagging us out yet DENYING the fact that your religous leaders MOLEST CHILDREN!!!! kids who havent even reached puberty!!!! seriously all you haters are PATHETIC and sad!
ReplyDeleteas for that IDIOT who claimed they have read the KORAN are you sure you werent reading a copy of PLAYBOY????? no where in the KORAN does it accept or promote rape and violence! your so ignorant and PATHETIC and that fool who said they dont need muslims! what a stupid comment! just remember people, that without the foreigners you rednecks would live a boring life mumching on your meat pies daily! where is the culture without the foreigners? just because one individual does something wrong, doesnt mean you judge the whole community! just because one priest gets his JOLLY's out of fondling a poor young childs genitals, doesnt mean all priests are the same! to be a good christian or what ever religion you may be you need to LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR and thats what you rednecks aint doing! man you blow asses need to spend some time learning about other religions/cultures other then the one you know.......
and annon @ 6.54 you deserve a clap! YOUR a fool!!!!! what do all muslims drive hotted up cars???you seem to be jealous that they OWN their cars unlike yourself who probably saved up all your dole money and bought a shitty torano OR even classier a comby van to accomodate for all your devil worshipping friends!
"you seem to be jealous that they OWN their cars"
ReplyDeleteI own a new Volvo and a 5 year old Maserati. I pity muslims because all of them are victims of child abuse. Raising a child to believe in Islam is child abuse. 'Me' your obsession with child sex is quite disturbing. I think you should get some therapy for that. Before you become an abuser - If you ever grow a penis.
This is hilarious. *sits back & grabs a beer*
ReplyDeleteannon@ 7.56....
ReplyDeleteIm sure i have a bigger penis then you CONSIDERING im a girl!
i keep mentioning child sex abuse because YOUR leaders are doing it!!!!! that is worse then raping someone, bombing someone even KILLING someone! as for your comment about raising a child as a muslim... how many people have you seen convert to CHRISTIANITY??? 1 in amillion??? yes thats right! islam is the fasting growing religion so we must be doing something right! I think your the one that needs therapy maybe it will help you open up your mind a bit and realise that because a minority of people fck up it doesnt mean were all the same!
I really feel sorry for you people beacause to be a good christian, jew or muslim you need to LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR and thats certainly not happening!
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina31103.htm
ReplyDeletePerhaps it is best to listen to the truth coming from the mouth of the horse. The Internet site aljazeera.net
http://www.aljazeera.net/Portal/aspx/FNF.aspx
published an interview with Ahmad Al Qataani ???? ???????? An important Islamic cleric who said: “In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Ever year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity."
Well it does seem that plenty of muslims are converting to Christianity unless this muslim cleric is lying in the way most muslims do. You lie when you say Islam is the fastest growing religion. It is not. That is a massive lie constantly repeated by lying muslims until they believe it. Islam is a fast breeding religion in that plenty of unfortunate children are born into muslim families.
'Me' you are not my neighbour you are a liar and the enemy of Christian decency.
/me puffs a billy.
ReplyDeleteIrfan stinks
ReplyDelete