tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post4860756204584963388..comments2023-11-02T23:12:22.758+11:00Comments on Planet Irf: HATEWATCH: Yet even more great moments from Tim Blair's News Ltd blog ...Irfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12032825228704836828noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-22057189261598665662009-02-02T16:09:00.000+11:002009-02-02T16:09:00.000+11:00"The question was about Islam permitting the beati..."The question was about Islam permitting the beating of disobedient wives. Either you believe Islam does allow this as stated, in which case Tim's mob are in the right criticising it, or you believe it doesn't, (or at least not in the sense they're thinking,) in which case you need to back that opinion up."<BR/><BR/>So now you are saying Tim's morons have the power to declare people from certain Irfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12032825228704836828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-70477777766953807942009-02-01T16:23:00.000+11:002009-02-01T16:23:00.000+11:00Anon, naturally I would spend exhorbitant amounts ...Anon, naturally I would spend exhorbitant amounts of time researching, crafting and posting anonymous posts on my own blog threatening myself, my family and others with violence, genocde etc.Irfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12032825228704836828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-28645637110971717552009-02-01T13:48:00.000+11:002009-02-01T13:48:00.000+11:00How do you know, Anonymous?How do you know, Anonymous?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-11061813821463264732009-02-01T02:45:00.000+11:002009-02-01T02:45:00.000+11:00It is particularly pathetic that Irfan posts on hi...It is particularly pathetic that Irfan posts on his own blog as Anonymous and Mrs Devershirme amongst other aliases.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-43160124667400183752009-01-29T08:38:00.000+11:002009-01-29T08:38:00.000+11:00Anonymous 1,You're not required to speak on behalf...Anonymous 1,<BR/><BR/>You're not required to speak on behalf of all Muslims, only yourselves. In the same way that Tim's commentators have not been compared to unsophisticated Nazis by the whole umma, only yourselves.<BR/><BR/>In the same way that you can't say on behalf of the whole umma that this sort of unpleasantness is not a genuine part of Islam.<BR/><BR/>The question was about Islam Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-76152097181709530772009-01-29T01:30:00.000+11:002009-01-29T01:30:00.000+11:00Devshirme said: "This is exactly the sort of thing...Devshirme said: "This is exactly the sort of thing I'm after - technical arguments to demonstrate that Islam can be reformed."<BR/><BR/>Two points. <BR/><BR/>First, one should be careful what one wishes for. Many Muslims HAVE been actively engaged in substantial "reform" of how the religion should operate. The Muslim Brotherhood, Jemaah Islamiyah, and al Qaeda are all good examples of modernist Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-69408542487008964012009-01-28T12:56:00.000+11:002009-01-28T12:56:00.000+11:00"Denying it or making counter-accusations only del..."Denying it or making counter-accusations only delays things a little, they solve nothing. You have to deal with it, one way or the other."<BR/><BR/>On behalf of the 1.2 billion Muslims I simply have no right to speak on behalf of, I'd like to thank Devshirme for alerting us all of the serious problems that we all collectively face. I urge the nations of the allegedly Islamic world to read for Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-49268180089458963192009-01-27T06:15:00.000+11:002009-01-27T06:15:00.000+11:00Mrs Devshirme,None of the above was cut-and-paste,...Mrs Devshirme,<BR/><BR/>None of the above was cut-and-paste, actually. I don't have the book in soft-copy, so I had to do it the hard way.<BR/><BR/>My aim here is not simply to have a go at Islam. You can get that sort of thing anywhere. It's more than that. There is a tendency amongst Muslims to dismiss any criticism as either ignorance or falsehoods born out of hatred. Sometimes it is. But Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-78969949848333847802009-01-26T11:11:00.000+11:002009-01-26T11:11:00.000+11:00"Regarding torture - and I make no claims to be an..."Regarding torture - and I make no claims to be an expert on this... Mostly, it is the absence of rules against that is the problem."<BR/><BR/>In Islam, there is no specific rule forbidding a person from taking a loaf of bread and cutting it into the stape of Marilyn Munroe's skirt. Does that mean Moslems are allowed to waste valuable time doing this?<BR/><BR/>Like you, I am also not an expert. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-13747374270370109712009-01-26T10:39:00.000+11:002009-01-26T10:39:00.000+11:00Mrs Devshirme,Don't be ridiculous! Of course I don...Mrs Devshirme,<BR/><BR/>Don't be ridiculous! Of course I don't believe I can cover all of Muslim law in a paragraph! But neither can you get away with saying "it's complicated" and leaving the argument entirely unaddressed.<BR/><BR/>This is precisely the point I'm trying to make. We see these clerics, books on fiqh, fatwas, judges, and so on claiming that wife beating is permitted or whatever, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-81571386305579037842009-01-26T01:53:00.000+11:002009-01-26T01:53:00.000+11:00"None of those are allowed in orthodox Islam, of c..."None of those are allowed in orthodox Islam, of course, so you'll have to change/get round the rules on bi'da/innovation too."<BR/><BR/>So what is bidah hasanah? Or doesn't the website you cut and paste from talk about that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-13266677211336039212009-01-26T01:50:00.000+11:002009-01-26T01:50:00.000+11:00"Torture is permitted in Islam, which is why Hamas..."Torture is permitted in Islam, which is why Hamas, the Taliban, and all their little friends have no intention of stopping doing it."<BR/><BR/>OK, so you are saying there is a law in Islam that deals with torture. Is it a Shia or Sunni law? If Sunni, which one of the 4 Sunni schools does it belong to? If shia, which living mujtahid endorses its use? What are its limits? How is it to be Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-89709460408891528922009-01-26T01:46:00.000+11:002009-01-26T01:46:00.000+11:00Devshirme, you think that by quoting one book of c...Devshirme, you think that by quoting one book of classical Islamic personal law, you have covered the entire field of understanding among all Moslems - Sunni, Shia, Ismaili etc.<BR/><BR/>You think that putting 3 hadith side by side represents the totality of everything Moslem legal and religious tradition has to say about gender relations, dress etc.<BR/><BR/>Why don't you look at how the Beth Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-43699805460344574282009-01-25T23:21:00.000+11:002009-01-25T23:21:00.000+11:00Mrs Devshirme,You can do as you wish, but it would...Mrs Devshirme,<BR/><BR/>You can do as you wish, but it wouldn't be relevant to the discussion, or counter the point. It would be no more relevant to cite the Aztec religion on human sacrifice.<BR/><BR/>We're talking about Islam here, and the disconnect between what orthodox Islamic texts, histories, and clerics say, and the unsupported assertions of a few Westernised Muslims trying to downplay Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-74124733398738073092009-01-25T21:05:00.000+11:002009-01-25T21:05:00.000+11:00Can I cut and paste bits from Hallacha that allow ...Can I cut and paste bits from Hallacha that allow a man to order that his wife shaves her head? Or how about the bits that allow child marriage?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-28742764698832571242009-01-25T20:03:00.000+11:002009-01-25T20:03:00.000+11:00Mrs Devshirme,From Umdat al Salik, again, w51.w51....Mrs Devshirme,<BR/><BR/>From Umdat al Salik, again, w51.<BR/><BR/>w51.1 The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said, "May Allah curse women who wear false hair or arrange it for others, who tattoo or have themselves tattooed, who pluch facial hair or eyebrows or have them plucked, and women who separate their front teeth for beauty, altering what Allah has created."<BR/><BR/>w51.2 (Ibn Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-61511939013756599102009-01-25T13:09:00.000+11:002009-01-25T13:09:00.000+11:00Can I grow my hair again? I promise I'll behave. I...Can I grow my hair again? I promise I'll behave. I'll even do french on you on Saturdays.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-68369744572939101042009-01-25T09:02:00.000+11:002009-01-25T09:02:00.000+11:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-13408258421314588232009-01-25T08:29:00.000+11:002009-01-25T08:29:00.000+11:00It would be a lot more useful if, instead of chidi...It would be a lot more useful if, instead of chiding Tim's audience for 'cultural nuance and sophistication', you were to put up something educational to actually address the point raised.<BR/><BR/>The issue is that Q4:34, which asserts male superiority and permits the beating of disobedient wives, has been interpreted by both historical and contemporary Islamic jurists precisely as Tim's cleric Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-49858646699290827452009-01-24T11:58:00.000+11:002009-01-24T11:58:00.000+11:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3650193.post-75376670513485945242009-01-24T09:04:00.000+11:002009-01-24T09:04:00.000+11:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com